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Carquestions investigates the inside story behind Toyota’s recall involving a stuck gas pedal. Its being reported that it could be the most expensive recall in history. This could also be a problem for other manufacturers who use similar systems if it turns out to be a software bug or shared common part. This is a good example of how expansive and expensive a recall can be when you use common parts. The parts company that made the gas pedal, CTS (a Canadian company) has supplied Ford, GM and Chrysler among others.
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@MetalHeadHippies It can’t be done, every car bus and truck runs off computers. Hell my 03 Harley has one. To date no Toyotas or any other car I can think of has ever been found to accelerate out of control by itself as a result of a computer fault. They are just unproven claims – less every day as the EDR computer proves 100% the people are stepping on the gas.
dude, the best solution to this problem,is to eleminate the computer, AND PUT A MECHANICAL FALL BACK IN THE MIX! lol putting a computer in the place of a cable was STUPID!!! we all know the problems we have with our computers these days,and im a computer freak,but i sure wouldnt trust my life to one…
Another reason I say this is being blown out of proportion is in most cases there is no reason the driver can’t pop the transmision into N and safely bring the vehicle to a stop. All cars these days have rev limiters so no damage will occur to the engine. The only collisions that should exist are low speed sudden acceleration types.
Not only would this simple software change greatly reduce the chances of uncontrolled acceleration occurring but more importantly for Toyota it would make consumers believe Toyota DOES take safety seriously. They should have done this years ago, well before the problem blew up as it did. It is hard to understand how Toyota got themselves to the point of stopping sales and shutting down assembly lines.
@Slider68 What I don’t understand is why doesn’t Toyota simply and quietly modify their software so whenever the brake pedal is depressed, the engine automatically idles. Perhaps for the highest performance Toyota’s this could be a user option, but I don’t see a reason not to implement this additional safety feature for basic cars.
@carquestions This issue IS being blown out of proportion. Given enough samples, everything is imperfect. There have been 8 to 55 fatalities attributed to uncontrolled acceleration. Some of these are likely driver error and some will be real (ALL manufacturers have glitches). In the same period there was well over 300,000 US fatal collisions due entirely to driver error. While Toyota’s have more of than others, the number of fatalities caused by these glitches is still incredibly small.
@carquestions Do you accept that everyone’s personal computer does every now and then suffer from glitches in hardware or software? Have you ever had a piece of computer software crash or lock up where upon restarting it or rebooting there is no record of the problem? There are enough Toyota’s out there that some of them HAVE suffered from electronic glitches of one type or another. It is impossible for this not to be the case and for some reason Toyota’s seem to be more prone than others.
@carquestions There is no doubt in my mind that SOME of these cases are 100% driver error, but how do you explain the fact that Toyota owners are experiencing a loss of control over their vehicle’s speed in such a high number compared to ALL other manufacturers? Do you honestly believe that Toyota owners are somehow inferior to everyone else? If so, how can you possibly justify this theory of yours?
@Slider68 There is no doubt in my mind that it is human error with pedal placement a contributing factor – To put the computer glitch theory to rest I’d say when my computer goes on the fritz I can give you my computer and it will do the same thing for you as me or anyone else I give it to to confirm – Trained investigators havent seen the slightest hint there is a real glitch – only people suggesting it. Google Sussman and Pollard Study of the Audi 5000 it explains it well
@carquestions What I I’m trying to say is there may be no specific defect with the pedal, throttle body or ECM and that the problems may be due to minor software or firmware glitches that erroneously interpret the gas pedal as down. Based on the evidence available this makes the most sense to me and also explains the investigation results. If it isn’t this then for some reason Toyota drivers are less intelligent, are unable to control their feet and are creating these deadly emergencies.
@Slider68 Simple, they triple test the system of each car to ensure the system is recording accurately. What you’re now suggesting is the EDR computer has some fault as well as the pedal, throttle body and ECM – I guess there is a chance I could dial a number on my phone and get an entirely different number but that too would be easy to check. – but in 50 years of dialing the only mistakes have been mine
@Slider68 I bet the opposite – see the reward video $2,250 – All the investigations by NHTSA to date have all been driver error – check out “Sheboygan Falls — Driver error” on google
@carquestions If the EDR data says the throttle was wide open, how does this tell us that the driver actually had their foot on the throttle? All it says is that the computer believed that the throttle was down and it opened up the throttle body and fed fuel into the engine. It doesn’t tell us anything about what the driver was actually doing.
@carquestions I doubt there is a mechanical problem with the pedal. If there was, there would be pictures the Internet. At the same time there are lots of people having accidents (even dying) and claiming to have stuck throttles. I would bet that there IS a problem and the problem is in how the computer and electronics interpret the throttle. This is a complex system and there could easily be a bug in the software or electronics somewhere. Once the software resets, the evidence is lost.
@Slider68 In all investigated cases they use the data from the EDR – tells them if the seat belt was on or off, brakes on or off, gas pedal percent ie 70% – when there is a collision. The Prius can do it without a collision. Try tricking it – I jammed the throttle and started it with the foot off the gas – it started up and died with the MIL light on
@carquestions I don’t know how an investigator can conclude with absolute certainty that the driver are all pressing and holding their throttles to the floor instead of the engine’s throttle getting stuck wide open for one reason or another.
How can they tell for certain the computer didn’t get confused about the position of the magnet? Once the car is turned off this information is lost for ever.
March 31, 2010, 9:30 pm – Sources familiar with the NHTSA / Toyota investigations have reported to Carquestions that all of the investigations of the past two weeks (more than have all resulted in a finding of “driver error” and no vehicle defects have been found. It is also reported that NHTSA will halt its current round of investigations into Toyota sudden acceleration claims until further notice.
The camry hits cop – I watched it and saw the right brake light come on then both reverse lights come on then he floored it and kept it floored – what did you see? Are you saying Toyota has a new problem with the transmission putting itself in reverse? – This is your proof – you must be joking or blind or both
abc news nightline titled OUT OF CONTROL it was the service manager at toyota who witnessed the raceing engine and smoking brakes firsthand, replaced was the gas pedal throttle and sensors
check the videos on my list and see for yourself, make sure to contact the dealer who witnessed the raceing engine glitch firsthand and ask them what parts were replaced, they did replace sensors and the pedal
I will see your 2250 and raise you 2250 more, watch the video with the police officer and you hear the toyota engine raceing and hitting the rev limiter also watch the news video where the guy nerses the toyota in and out of neutral drive too the dealer and they confirm the raceing engine problem
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carquestions says:
July 10th, 2010
2:57 pm
@MetalHeadHippies It can’t be done, every car bus and truck runs off computers. Hell my 03 Harley has one. To date no Toyotas or any other car I can think of has ever been found to accelerate out of control by itself as a result of a computer fault. They are just unproven claims – less every day as the EDR computer proves 100% the people are stepping on the gas.
MetalHeadHippies says:
July 10th, 2010
3:48 pm
dude, the best solution to this problem,is to eleminate the computer, AND PUT A MECHANICAL FALL BACK IN THE MIX! lol putting a computer in the place of a cable was STUPID!!! we all know the problems we have with our computers these days,and im a computer freak,but i sure wouldnt trust my life to one…
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
4:02 pm
Another reason I say this is being blown out of proportion is in most cases there is no reason the driver can’t pop the transmision into N and safely bring the vehicle to a stop. All cars these days have rev limiters so no damage will occur to the engine. The only collisions that should exist are low speed sudden acceleration types.
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
5:01 pm
Not only would this simple software change greatly reduce the chances of uncontrolled acceleration occurring but more importantly for Toyota it would make consumers believe Toyota DOES take safety seriously. They should have done this years ago, well before the problem blew up as it did. It is hard to understand how Toyota got themselves to the point of stopping sales and shutting down assembly lines.
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
5:08 pm
@Slider68 What I don’t understand is why doesn’t Toyota simply and quietly modify their software so whenever the brake pedal is depressed, the engine automatically idles. Perhaps for the highest performance Toyota’s this could be a user option, but I don’t see a reason not to implement this additional safety feature for basic cars.
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
5:18 pm
@carquestions This issue IS being blown out of proportion. Given enough samples, everything is imperfect. There have been 8 to 55 fatalities attributed to uncontrolled acceleration. Some of these are likely driver error and some will be real (ALL manufacturers have glitches). In the same period there was well over 300,000 US fatal collisions due entirely to driver error. While Toyota’s have more of than others, the number of fatalities caused by these glitches is still incredibly small.
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
5:32 pm
@carquestions Do you accept that everyone’s personal computer does every now and then suffer from glitches in hardware or software? Have you ever had a piece of computer software crash or lock up where upon restarting it or rebooting there is no record of the problem? There are enough Toyota’s out there that some of them HAVE suffered from electronic glitches of one type or another. It is impossible for this not to be the case and for some reason Toyota’s seem to be more prone than others.
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
6:01 pm
@carquestions There is no doubt in my mind that SOME of these cases are 100% driver error, but how do you explain the fact that Toyota owners are experiencing a loss of control over their vehicle’s speed in such a high number compared to ALL other manufacturers? Do you honestly believe that Toyota owners are somehow inferior to everyone else? If so, how can you possibly justify this theory of yours?
carquestions says:
July 10th, 2010
7:01 pm
@Slider68 There is no doubt in my mind that it is human error with pedal placement a contributing factor – To put the computer glitch theory to rest I’d say when my computer goes on the fritz I can give you my computer and it will do the same thing for you as me or anyone else I give it to to confirm – Trained investigators havent seen the slightest hint there is a real glitch – only people suggesting it. Google Sussman and Pollard Study of the Audi 5000 it explains it well
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
7:56 pm
@carquestions What I I’m trying to say is there may be no specific defect with the pedal, throttle body or ECM and that the problems may be due to minor software or firmware glitches that erroneously interpret the gas pedal as down. Based on the evidence available this makes the most sense to me and also explains the investigation results. If it isn’t this then for some reason Toyota drivers are less intelligent, are unable to control their feet and are creating these deadly emergencies.
carquestions says:
July 10th, 2010
7:57 pm
@Slider68 Simple, they triple test the system of each car to ensure the system is recording accurately. What you’re now suggesting is the EDR computer has some fault as well as the pedal, throttle body and ECM – I guess there is a chance I could dial a number on my phone and get an entirely different number but that too would be easy to check. – but in 50 years of dialing the only mistakes have been mine
carquestions says:
July 10th, 2010
8:46 pm
@Slider68 I bet the opposite – see the reward video $2,250 – All the investigations by NHTSA to date have all been driver error – check out “Sheboygan Falls — Driver error” on google
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
9:24 pm
@carquestions If the EDR data says the throttle was wide open, how does this tell us that the driver actually had their foot on the throttle? All it says is that the computer believed that the throttle was down and it opened up the throttle body and fed fuel into the engine. It doesn’t tell us anything about what the driver was actually doing.
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
9:57 pm
@carquestions I doubt there is a mechanical problem with the pedal. If there was, there would be pictures the Internet. At the same time there are lots of people having accidents (even dying) and claiming to have stuck throttles. I would bet that there IS a problem and the problem is in how the computer and electronics interpret the throttle. This is a complex system and there could easily be a bug in the software or electronics somewhere. Once the software resets, the evidence is lost.
carquestions says:
July 10th, 2010
9:58 pm
@crosley72 I’ve tried it and like it – the problem in Canada is the season for bare feet is pretty short.
carquestions says:
July 10th, 2010
10:58 pm
@Slider68 In all investigated cases they use the data from the EDR – tells them if the seat belt was on or off, brakes on or off, gas pedal percent ie 70% – when there is a collision. The Prius can do it without a collision. Try tricking it – I jammed the throttle and started it with the foot off the gas – it started up and died with the MIL light on
Slider68 says:
July 10th, 2010
11:51 pm
@carquestions I don’t know how an investigator can conclude with absolute certainty that the driver are all pressing and holding their throttles to the floor instead of the engine’s throttle getting stuck wide open for one reason or another.
How can they tell for certain the computer didn’t get confused about the position of the magnet? Once the car is turned off this information is lost for ever.
crosley72 says:
July 11th, 2010
12:04 am
Hi,man. Years i drive barefoot,is much saref. Encourage you try! If you have ever tried to drive barefoot?
carquestions says:
July 11th, 2010
12:43 am
March 31, 2010, 9:30 pm – Sources familiar with the NHTSA / Toyota investigations have reported to Carquestions that all of the investigations of the past two weeks (more than
have all resulted in a finding of “driver error” and no vehicle defects have been found. It is also reported that NHTSA will halt its current round of investigations into Toyota sudden acceleration claims until further notice.
carquestions says:
July 11th, 2010
12:47 am
Brian Ross? the same guy who was put on vacation after his bogus Gilbert video? I’ll check my contacts to verify the rest of the story
carquestions says:
July 11th, 2010
1:07 am
The camry hits cop – I watched it and saw the right brake light come on then both reverse lights come on then he floored it and kept it floored – what did you see? Are you saying Toyota has a new problem with the transmission putting itself in reverse? – This is your proof – you must be joking or blind or both
meattube4u33 says:
July 11th, 2010
1:34 am
abc news nightline titled OUT OF CONTROL it was the service manager at toyota who witnessed the raceing engine and smoking brakes firsthand, replaced was the gas pedal throttle and sensors
meattube4u33 says:
July 11th, 2010
2:27 am
check the videos on my list and see for yourself, make sure to contact the dealer who witnessed the raceing engine glitch firsthand and ask them what parts were replaced, they did replace sensors and the pedal
carquestions says:
July 11th, 2010
2:32 am
Be happy to – please give me the names or locations so I can check it -
meattube4u33 says:
July 11th, 2010
2:49 am
I will see your 2250 and raise you 2250 more, watch the video with the police officer and you hear the toyota engine raceing and hitting the rev limiter also watch the news video where the guy nerses the toyota in and out of neutral drive too the dealer and they confirm the raceing engine problem